Interview
Carice van Houten: ‘I feel like my back is straightening when I become Melisandre’
Actor and singer Carice van Houten was born in the Netherlands in 1976. Acclaimed in her own country, where she has won a number of Golden Calf awards, she attracted international attention with her role in Paul Verhoeven’s 2006 film Black Book. Her English-language films include Valkyrie (2008), Repo Men and Black Death (both 2010). Since 2011, she has portrayed Melisandre in Game of Thrones. Now van Houten stars as Nazi film-maker and propagandist Leni Riefenstahl in a new film, Race, about African American athlete Jesse Owens and his impact on the 1936 Olympics in Berlin.
What kind of research did you do into Leni Riefenstahl?
I watched a lot of her films, footage, read a lot about her. The more I knew about her the more I wished we could make a whole movie about her alone. But she’s a side figure in this film, so there was simply no room for the complexity of the character. If we were to make a film about her it would probably be much more ambiguous.
From your research, what impression did you get of her?
You have to be careful what you say, because it’s so sensitive, but the feeling I got was that we’ll really never know what was in her head, what she knew. The thing that did come across was that she had a huge talent and a love for the arts. I also thought it must have been tricky to have that responsibility as a woman, to get the chance to make a film like that at that time. Even now, how many female directors are there? Of course she was a Nazi, but I’m not sure how much of the Nazi ideology was a trigger for her. I think if the party had been about saving animals she would have done the same thing. But it’s hard to say – it’s all so shady.
You’ve played a number of roles set in the second world war (Black Book,Valkyrie). Considering the rise of the far right across Europe, how important is it to keep telling these stories?
I don’t know if I should be in all of them, but it’s very important. That happened more than 70 years ago and still we are dealing with this stuff. We had a minister here in Holland not so long ago who wanted to take history out of school classes. I mean, what world are we living in? That’s really scary to me. We may look more sophisticated, but in fact we’re still animals.
You’ve played characters who are very virtuous, morally grey and very evil – which do you prefer playing?
I like to play a strong woman, but a strong woman can also be very fragile and vulnerable at the same time. In Game of Thrones, for a long time [Melisandre] was very sure of herself, never any fear, never any self-doubt, and those are the things I really like as an actor, because that’s where we can use our own damaged characters. But that’s also a challenge for me. I also like comic roles, although the trouble is if you get into the second world war drawer, no one will think of you as a funny person.
Melisandre is a very dark character – how do you get into her headspace?
I’m not much of a method actor, so I’ll still be goofy, nerdy Carice until someone calls “action”. I notice that I transform, but it’s more subconscious. I feel like my back is straightening when I become her, and something with my voice happens, and definitely the hair helps. I did a Game of Thronessketch with Seth Meyers on his show, in a warm American studio with people saying funny lines, and I was completely confused. On the set everything is dark and feels medieval.
There was a big revelation concerning your character at the start of the season. How much else do you know about her?
Not so much. I was told a couple of things at the beginning and that’s basically what you get. I’ve never been so eager to get scripts – I’m like: “What the fuck is going to happen to me now?” I can imagine if you’re a soap opera actor it’s a similar feeling.
Recently, the director of Iron Man 3 said he wanted a female villain but his studio bosses shut down the idea. Do you think TV is more forward thinking in that respect than cinema?
Oh yes, 100%. With all respect, the scripts I see sometimes for movies... The women are “sassy” and “sexy”, whereas men get descriptions like: “You can see that his past has done something with him”; “he’s intelligent”. It’s very sad. Sometimes there are moments where I feel like we haven’t come far at all. TV in that sense is definitely way more progressive. They’re interesting female characters – not just doing the dishes, waiting for the man to come home and being worried about the children.
Paul Verhoeven has been in the news lately with his controversial new filmElle. What are your views on him?
I love him as a co-worker: Black Book, for me, was really important and I felt so safe with him and so free. We still see each other every few months for lunch or dinner. And his films – Europe has always loved him, has always seen his ironic side. I call him an intellectual with a dirty mind: he still has that childlike fascination for women and beauty and sex, but he’s also extremely intelligent.
Do continental audiences have a different attitude to nudity?
Apparently! It’s still a taboo, whereas violence is OK. You can see someone’s head shot off and that’s all fine. But a nipple? No. That subject is fascinating to me: how uncomfortable people still are with their own bodies and their own sexuality.
Do you think the female nudity in Game of Thrones is gratuitous or is it fitting for the patriarchal world they live in?
I think we’re showing reality, in a sense. I feel like it has been a weapon for a lot of women in the past and men have taken advantage of women’s bodies. It’s true, I think, and therefore probably very painful sometimes to watch. It’s not my favourite thing to do – at all. I really don’t like to take my clothes off on a set where everyone’s wearing fucking North Face jackets. But in Melisandre’s case, it’s definitely a weapon she uses.
We finally saw a penis this season and Emilia Clarke recently talked about #freetheP. Do you think there should be more male nudity in popular culture?
Well, not necessarily. But the evenness of it would be good. And it’s about showing reality, showing what we’re made of. Let’s not pretend men have nothing there. I don’t necessarily have to see it but it’s just a penis. I’d rather see that than a machine gun.
Race is in cinemas now
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